{"id":53161,"date":"2018-11-30T16:33:46","date_gmt":"2018-11-30T21:33:46","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/?p=53161"},"modified":"2018-11-30T16:33:46","modified_gmt":"2018-11-30T21:33:46","slug":"20181130science%e4%b8%93%e8%ae%bf-%e5%93%88%e4%bd%9b%e4%b8%a4%e9%99%a2%e9%99%a2%e5%a3%ab%e4%b8%ba%e8%b4%ba%e5%bb%ba%e5%a5%8e%e5%9f%ba%e5%9b%a0%e7%bc%96%e8%be%91%e8%be%a9%e6%8a%a4","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/?p=53161","title":{"rendered":"20181130\/Science\u4e13\u8bbf: \u54c8\u4f5b\u4e24\u9662\u9662\u58eb\u4e3a\u8d3a\u5efa\u594e\u57fa\u56e0\u7f16\u8f91\u8fa9\u62a4"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>\u6765\u6e90\uff1a\u77e5\u793e\u5b66\u672f\u5708<\/p>\n<p>\u57fa\u56e0\u7f16\u8f91\u5a74\u513f\u5728\u4e2d\u56fd\u8bde\u751f\u7684\u6d88\u606f\u4e00\u7ecf\u53d1\u5e03\uff0c\u4e3e\u4e16\u54d7\u7136\uff0c\u8d3a\u5efa\u594e\u6210\u4f17\u77e2\u4e4b\u7684\uff0c\u88ab\u7fa4\u8d77\u653b\u4e4b\u3002\u4e0d\u8fc7\u4e5f\u6709\u4e00\u4f4d\u58f0\u540d\u663e\u8d6b\u7684\u5b66\u8005\u7ad9\u51fa\u6765\uff0c\u4e3a\u4ed6\u8bf4\u8bdd\u3002<\/p>\n<p>\u4ed6\u662fGeorge Church\uff0c\u54c8\u4f5b\u5927\u5b66\u6559\u6388\uff0c\u7f8e\u56fd\u56fd\u5bb6\u79d1\u5b66\u9662\u9662\u58eb\uff0c\u7f8e\u56fd\u56fd\u5bb6\u5de5\u7a0b\u9662\u9662\u58eb\u3002Church\u6559\u6388\u53d1\u5c55\u4e86\u7b2c\u4e00\u4e2a\u57fa\u56e0\u6d4b\u5e8f\u7684\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u8054\u5408\u53d1\u8d77\u4e86\u4eba\u7c7b\u57fa\u56e0\u7ec4\u5de5\u7a0b\uff0c\u8054\u5408\u53d1\u8d77\u4e86\u7f8e\u56fd\u8111\u79d1\u5b66\u5de5\u7a0b\uff08BRAIN Initiative\uff09\uff0c\u88ab\u7ef4\u57fa\u767e\u79d1\u8a89\u4e3a\u5408\u6210\u751f\u7269\u5b66\u4e4b\u7236\uff0c\u540c\u65f6\u4e5f\u662fCRISPR\u57fa\u56e0\u7f16\u8f91\u6280\u672f\u5148\u9a71\u4e4b\u4e00\u3002\u7f8e\u4e1c\u65f6\u95f411\u670828\u65e5\uff0c\u5728Science\u53d1\u8868\u7684\u5173\u4e8e\u8d3a\u5efa\u594e\u57fa\u56e0\u7f16\u8f91\u5a74\u513f\u7684\u4e13\u8bbf\u4e2d\uff0cChurch\u6559\u6388\u79f0\uff1a<\/p>\n<p>I feel an obligation to be 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\u6765\u95ee\u9898\u3002\u6211\u4eec\u4e00\u4e9b\u732a\u6709\u5341\u51e0\u4e2aCRISPR\u7a81\u53d8\uff0c\u6709\u4e00\u79cd\u8001\u9f2040\u591a\u4e2aCRISPR\u70b9\u7ecf\u5e38\u8131\u9776\u3002\u4f46\u6211\u4eec\u8fd8\u6ca1\u6709\u770b\u5230\u8d1f\u9762\u540e\u679c\u7684\u8bc1\u636e\u3002<\/p>\n<p>Q\uff1a\u60a8\u4f1a\u53c2\u4e0e\u8fd9\u4e2a\u5b9e\u9a8c\u5417\uff1f<\/p>\n<p>A\uff1a\u4e5f\u8bb8\u4e0d\u4f1a\u3002\u4f46\u6211\u4e5f\u4e0d\u4f1a\u5c061918\u6d41\u611f\u75c5\u6bd2\u6216\u8005\u5929\u82b1\u75c5\u6bd2\u4f20\u64ad\u7ed9\u5927\u4f17\u3002\u8fd9\u4e2a\u5b9e\u9a8c\u6bd4\u5c06\u75c5\u6bd2\u4f20\u67d3\u7ed9\u5927\u4f17\u98ce\u9669\u7565\u4f4e\u3002<\/p>\n<p>Q\uff1a\u4e5f\u6709\u4eba\u62c5\u5fc3\u5bf9\u8d3a\u5b9e\u9a8c\u7684\u53cd\u5f39\u4f1a\u635f\u5bb3\u8fd9\u4e2a\u9886\u57df\uff1f<\/p>\n<p>A\uff1a\u5728\u57fa\u56e0\u7597\u6cd5\u53d1\u5c55\u7684\u65e9\u671f\uff0c\u524d\u671f\u7684\u521d\u6b65\u7814\u7a76\u6bd4\u73b0\u5728\u8981\u5c11\u5f88\u591a\uff0c\u800c\u4e14\u6709\u4e09\u4f8b\u6b7b\u4ea1\u4e8b\u4ef6\uff0c\u963b\u6ede\u4e86\u90a3\u4e2a\u9886\u57df\u7684\u53d1\u5c55\u3002\u8fd9\u4e5f\u8bb8\u4f7f\u5f97\u6211\u4eec\u66f4\u52a0\u5c0f\u5fc3\u8c28\u614e\uff0c\u57fa\u56e0\u7597\u6cd5\u5982\u4eca\u4e5f\u5377\u571f\u91cd\u6765\u6b23\u6b23\u5411\u8363\u3002\u6211\u4e0d\u8ba4\u4e3a\u8fd9\u4e24\u4e2a\u57fa\u56e0\u7f16\u8f91\u7684\u5b69\u5b50\u73b0\u5728\u4f1a\u9762\u4e34\u6b7b\u4ea1\u7684\u5a01\u80c1\u3002<\/p>\n<p>Q\uff1a\u90a3\u5173\u4e8e\u8d3a\u4e0d\u591f\u900f\u660e\u7684\u6307\u63a7\u5462\uff1f\u5728\u690d\u5165\u57fa\u56e0\u7f16\u8f91\u80da\u80ce\u4e4b\u524d\uff0c\u4ed6\u5e94\u8be5\u53d1\u8868\u524d\u671f\u521d\u6b65\u7ed3\u679c\uff0c\u5e76\u5c06\u81ea\u5df1\u7684\u610f\u56fe\u516c\u4e4b\u4e8e\u4f17\u3002<\/p>\n<p>A\uff1a\u8fd9\u662f\u5408\u7406\u7684\u6279\u8bc4\uff0c\u4ed6\u4e5f\u5c06\u4e3a\u6b64\u4ed8\u51fa\u4ee3\u4ef7\u3002\u6211\u81ea\u5df1\u663e\u7136\u662f\u5728\u5149\u8c31\u7684\u53e6\u4e00\u7aef\uff0c\u6781\u7aef\u900f\u660e\u3002<\/p>\n<p>\u2018I feel an obligation to be balanced.\u2019 Noted biologist comes to defense of gene editing babies<\/p>\n<p>By Jon Cohen Nov. 28, 2018 , 2:50 PM<\/p>\n<p>When a researcher in China startled the world earlier this week with the revelation that he had created the first gene-edited babies, only one prominent scientist quickly spoke out in his defense: geneticist George Church, whose Harvard University lab played a pioneering role in developing CRISPR, the genome editor used to engineer embryonic cells in the hugely controversial experiment. Church has reservations about the actions of He Jiankui, the scientist in Shenzhen, China, who led the work.<\/p>\n<p>The fiercely debated experiment, described by He at a meeting in Hong Kong, China, today, used CRISPR to try to make the babies resistant to HIV by crippling a receptor, CCR5, that the virus uses to infect white blood cells. But Church also thinks there\u2019s a frenzy of criticism surrounding He that exaggerates the severity of what one critic gingerly called his \u201cmissteps\u201d but another called \u201cmonstrous.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>ScienceInsider spoke with Church shortly before He\u2019s lecture in Hong Kong, but Church had seen the data earlier. This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What do you think of the criticism being heaped on He?<\/p>\n<p>A: I\u2019d just as well not hang myself out to dry with someone I barely know, but I feel an obligation to be balanced about it. I\u2019m sitting in the middle and everyone else is so extreme that it makes me look like his buddy. He\u2019s just an acquaintance. But it seems like a bullying situation to me. The most serious thing I\u2019ve heard is that he didn\u2019t do the paperwork right. He wouldn\u2019t be the first person who got the paperwork wrong. It\u2019s just that the stakes are higher. If it had gone south and someone had been damaged, maybe there would be some point. Like what happened with Jesse Gelsinger [who died in a 1999 gene therapy experiment]. But is this a Jesse Gelsinger or a Louise Brown [the first baby born through in vitro fertilization] event? That\u2019s probably what it boils down to.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Do you think the experiment is unethical?<\/p>\n<p>A: People have said there\u2019s a moratorium on germline editing and I contributed to reports that called for that, but a moratorium is not a permanent ban forever. It\u2019s a checklist of what you have to do. It really seems like he was checking off the published list [see p. 132] by the National Academy of Sciences and added a few things of his own. At some point, we have to say we\u2019ve done hundreds of animal studies and we\u2019ve done quite a few human embryo studies. It may be after the dust settles there\u2019s mosaicism and off targets that affect medical outcomes. It may never be zero. We don\u2019t wait for radiation to be zero before we do [positron emission tomography] scans or x-rays.<\/p>\n<p>Q: When did you learn about it and what was your reaction?<\/p>\n<p>A: About a week ago, and I was hoping he did everything right. You don\u2019t have that many shots on goal. He\u2019s not doing it the way I\u2019d do it, but I\u2019m hoping it doesn\u2019t work out badly. As long as these are normal, healthy kids it\u2019s going to be fine for the field and the family.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What do you think of his decision to cripple a gene to prevent HIV infection?<\/p>\n<p>A: It struck me as bold choice to do CCR5. In some ways it doesn\u2019t make sense, but in another way it makes more sense than \u03b2-thalassemia or sickle cell, both of which you can prevent with preimplantation genetic diagnosis. [These genetic diseases are two prime targets of many CRISPR researchers.] The real issue is what\u2019s the best first case.<\/p>\n<p>Q: But there\u2019s a relatively low rate of HIV infection in Chinese women. This isn\u2019t like in, say, KwaZulu Natal in South Africa, where the medical need to protect young women from the virus is great.<\/p>\n<p>A: This was a stretch, there\u2019s no doubt about it. There could be a bunch of small risks. Quite clearly the major motivator was testing CRISPR.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What do you think of the criticism the experiment doesn\u2019t address an \u201cunmet medical need\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>A: The unmet medical need is there is no cure or vaccine for HIV. And in that sense, there\u2019s more of a medical need than there is for \u03b2-thalassemia, for which there is an alternative, unless both parents are homozygous. [If both parents have two copies of the mutant gene, all of their offspring will develop the disease.]<\/p>\n<p>Q: What about concerns that CRISPR will make unintended edits in the genome, so-called off-target effects?<\/p>\n<p>A: I\u2019m not saying they\u2019ll never be an off-target problem. But let\u2019s be quantitative before we start being accusatory. It might be detectable but not clinical. There\u2019s no evidence of off-target causing problems in animals or cells. We have pigs that have dozens of CRISPR mutations and a mouse strain that has 40 CRISPR sites going off constantly and there are off-target effects in these animals, but we have no evidence of negative consequences.<\/p>\n<p>Q: Would you have been part of this experiment?<\/p>\n<p>A: Probably not. But I probably wouldn\u2019t have put the sequence of the 1918 flu virus or smallpox virus in the public domain. This is a slightly lower risk than putting potent pathogenic sequences in the public domain.<\/p>\n<p>Q: There\u2019s some worry that the backlash to He\u2019s experiment will harm the field.<\/p>\n<p>A: In the early days of gene therapies when there were far fewer preliminary studies, there were three deaths that set back the field. It may have just made us more cautious. And gene therapy is certainly back in force. And I don\u2019t think these kids [the babies whose genomes He edited] are going to die.<\/p>\n<p>Q: What about the argument that He wasn\u2019t transparent enough and should have published preliminary work and done more to make his intentions clear to the scientific community before implanting the embryos?<\/p>\n<p>A: Those are valid critiques, and he probably will pay some price. I\u2019m a little extreme on the transparency end of the spectrum [Church\u2019s website lists more than 100 affiliations he has with funders, companies, and nonprofits], and it\u2019s nice to have company on that. But at some point, we should start focusing on the health of the babies.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u6765\u6e90\uff1a\u77e5\u793e\u5b66\u672f\u5708 \u57fa\u56e0\u7f16\u8f91\u5a74\u513f\u5728\u4e2d\u56fd\u8bde\u751f\u7684\u6d88\u606f\u4e00\u7ecf\u53d1\u5e03\uff0c\u4e3e\u4e16\u54d7\u7136\uff0c\u8d3a\u5efa\u594e\u6210\u4f17\u77e2\u4e4b\u7684\uff0c\u88ab\u7fa4\u8d77\u653b\u4e4b\u3002\u4e0d\u8fc7\u4e5f\u6709\u4e00\u4f4d\u58f0\u540d\u663e\u8d6b\u7684\u5b66\u8005\u7ad9\u51fa\u6765\uff0c\u4e3a\u4ed6\u8bf4\u8bdd\u3002 \u4ed6\u662fGeorge Church\uff0c\u54c8\u4f5b\u5927\u5b66\u6559\u6388\uff0c\u7f8e\u56fd\u56fd\u5bb6\u79d1\u5b66\u9662\u9662\u58eb\uff0c\u7f8e\u56fd\u56fd\u5bb6\u5de5\u7a0b\u9662\u9662\u58eb\u3002Church\u6559\u6388\u53d1\u5c55\u4e86\u7b2c\u4e00\u4e2a\u57fa\u56e0\u6d4b\u5e8f\u7684\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u8054\u5408\u53d1\u8d77\u4e86\u4eba\u7c7b\u57fa\u56e0\u7ec4\u5de5\u7a0b\uff0c\u8054&#8230;<br \/><a class=\"read-more-button\" href=\"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/?p=53161\">Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[92],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/53161"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=53161"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/53161\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":53162,"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/53161\/revisions\/53162"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=53161"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=53161"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.jackjia.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=53161"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}